Vincent Boudreau
On this special summer edition of From City to the World, host Vincent Boudreau, President of The City College of New York, explores the powerful connections among sports, education, mentoring, and the personal development of young people. Joining the conversation are Ron Rizzi, CCNY alumnus and Senior Advisor for Baseball Operations and Scouting with the San Diego Padres, and Bobby "Zorro" Hunter, former Harlem Globetrotters star, Rucker Park legend, and co-founder of Each One Teach One. Through stories from Harlem basketball courts and global baseball diamonds, the guests make clear how mentorship, opportunity, and education can transform young lives and inspire future generations on and off the field.
Host: CCNY President Vincent Boudreau
Guests: Ron Rizzi, CCNY Class of 1969, Senior Advisor for Baseball Operations and Scouting, San Diego Padres; Bobby "Zorro" Hunter, retired Harlem Globetrotters player and co-founder, Each One Teach One
Episode Transcript
Vincent Boudreau
Welcome to From City to the World. I'm your host, Vince Boudreau, the President of the City College. And every month our program brings you news about how the work that we're doing at the college connects with work that's happening out in the community and how those two things work together, and especially around issues of education, economic development, social justice. And I should say this: normally we take a break during the summer. July and August, I've kind of put my feet up on the desk and relax a little bit, but we have a special show today because we just finished the World Cup. Baseball season is kicking into high gear. There's kids playing basketball on the courts of Harlem. And so, we wanted to do a show that looks at the relationship between sports and education and social involvement.
This is a really good moment for that. New York City just went crazy when the Knicks won the championship. We've just seen the entire world come to the United States and Canada and Mexico to play the World Cup. And so, today's program is going to be a treat for sports fans who are interested in those kinds of things. But the other reason I wanted to bring these two guests together is that sports can entertain us, but also bring communities together. And when young people engage in sports, as members of teams, as people working with mentors and coaches, it can often be pivotal in their development.
And so, we have two real legends in sports that exemplify that and exemplify ideas like this that are very familiar at City College. One of my predecessors, President Finley, was a real avid booster of athletics. But what he said about City College was that we don't bring athletes to City College to become students. We bring students to City College who become athletes. And so that relationship between the development of the person and the development of the athlete is something that we've always taken very seriously at this college, and that I think you'll hear our two guests have taken very seriously in their career.
So later we'll be joined by former Harlem Globetrotter, Bobby "Zorro" Hunter, whose basketball path took him around the world, ultimately into coaching, but from a start at the Rucker playground into the Harlem Globetrotters and finally into coaching at a number of college institutions. But first we're going to spend time with one of our graduates, a City College graduate named Ron Rizzi. He's a Bronx native. He grew up within walking distance of Yankee Stadium. He came to City College as a young man, played baseball until a shoulder injury ended his playing career, but that did not end his career in baseball. He began coaching while pursuing graduate studies in education and eventually moved into professional scouting.
So, over a career that's lasted more than five decades, he's worked with several major league organizations and helped identify players who went on to successful careers in the major leagues. Today, he serves as senior advisor for baseball operations and scouting with the San Diego Padres, who are in town tonight to play the New York Mets. This past June, Mr. Rizzi returned to City College for another milestone when he was inducted in the CCNY Athletic Alumni Varsity Hall of Fame. Ron, thank you for being here. Welcome to City College. And if I can say, even though I'm from New York, good luck tonight against the Mets.
Ron Rizzi
Oh, tough game last night.
Vincent Boudreau
Yes. Yes, it was. It was. Well, let me just start with your City College years. You came to City College at a very young age, and baseball was already a really important part of your life. So, can you describe what CCNY- today we are a division three team with an athletics programs that in some respects over the last decade or so struggled a little bit, but what was it like in your day? What was the culture of athletics at CCNY?
Ron Rizzi
The world, it was a revolutionary time in the world in the '60s. I got here as a 17-year-old in 1964, had a scholarship to St. John's, and I was recruited by Columbia, and I chose the proletariat, Harvard. And like you said to me one time when we first spoke that people that go from City College to Columbia increased their GPA. When we got people transferring here, we lower our GPA. And it was a great experience, and the diversity of the school wasn't quite as diverse as it is now, but I was a poor kid. My parents were from Italy, living in the projects and et cetera. And that was kind of the population base here at that time. And there were minorities here, and it's grown like it should be, and it's a tremendous diverse thing.
We're sitting in the bowels of Lewiston Stadium, which was a great, not a great facility, but it was like a kind of a Roman Coliseum facility where all the sports played. We didn't play baseball games there, but we practiced there. We had all our locker rooms there. Soccer team, which was... All our teams, by the way, were division one, played in the Met Conference at St. John's, Seton Hall, LIU, Fordham, Iona, all the top schools in the area. We weren't that far removed from the '50s where in 1950, obviously we're at the pinnacle, winning the NCAA and the NIT in the same year, the only team ever to do it. And then with those scandals that happened and things turned around, but we still had that essence of City College, with athletics still having a presence in the city, and we were still playing sports at a pretty high level at that time. The soccer team, Klivecka, the coach actually became the coach of the Cosmos with the-.
Vincent Boudreau
With Pele.
Ron Rizzi
With Pele. They played in Randall's Island. We, by the way, played baseball in Babe Ruth and Macombs Dam Park, right adjacent to Yankee Stadium. The track program was strong. All-Americans in lacrosse, obviously Lucia with the fencing, just about every sport was... The one thing that's interesting, there was basically no women's sports.
Vincent Boudreau
Before Title IX.
Ron Rizzi
Yeah. And then even basketball back then, they had Rovers, six on the team. Kind of crazy. So, Lewiston Stadium was here. In fact, they had summer concerts there at New York Philharmonic, New York City Philharmonic, and many famous recording artists would be there and fill it up, pack it up in the summer. And across the street, where the building is where they have the basketball arena now, was the administration building. And then towards the end of this building is they had an education building, and then was music and art, and the pretzel guy was there, Raymond. And you crossed, and there was the library, and South Campus was mostly education, social sciences kind of thing, and the student center. Finley, you mentioned. That was the name of the student center.
Vincent Boudreau
You mentioned a couple things. Lacrosse. First intercollegiate lacrosse game was played between City College and Princeton.
Ron Rizzi
Wow.
Vincent Boudreau
You mentioned Lewiston Stadium. For those of you that are listening and only know the modern campus, the North Academic Complex is this huge modern building that runs three blocks along Convent Avenue, but that was where Lewiston Stadium used to be. And among the achievements, the musical achievements in there, Rhapsody in Blue was performed for the first time before an audience there. And not once but twice, Aretha Franklin and first Cassius Clay and then second Muhammad Ali appeared on a combined bill. So, it's got a storied history, and it must have been a great place to have on campus and also to play in. So, you come to City College, you're a baseball player. Did you know that baseball was going to be in your future as a player? Did you have those aspirations?
Ron Rizzi
110% from when I was three.
Vincent Boudreau
Okay.
Ron Rizzi
My parents, again, they weren't educated. They were immigrants, but I was a voracious reader, and people don't read anymore or write letters anymore. They do email. But I think that really helped me with my education because I didn't really have support at home so much. They were great parents, loving and everything. Had food, not much else, but reading, I think, helped me with my education in terms of just in so many dimensions, just incredibly like that.
Vincent Boudreau
And in fairness, back then, but even today, the world of college education is often something that the student gets used to, but it's like a different world for parents who didn't have that opportunity.
Ron Rizzi
For sure. But let me just say it's not a panacea either because life is an education, and some of the most famous and successful people haven't really gotten degrees, that kind of thing. And so, just to be open to everything, the world around you, be conscious of what's going on and try to... I mean, I've been in baseball now, 58 years in professional baseball, and I'm still learning and still evolving. So that happens.
But I wanted to say one other thing which I think might be interesting to people listening, if they have any interest in City College at all. When I came here, it was the '60s, and that was a revolutionary time. We had the racial thing going on; we had Vietnam, the women's movement, the sexual movement, the last sexual revolution. The last semester that I was here as a student, the administration building was occupied. We didn't have any classes, but we played our schedule, and everyone got Ps that particular year. My first class here was political science. You appreciate it because that's literally your background.
Vincent Boudreau
I'm a political scientist, that's right.
Ron Rizzi
I'm trying to remember Sandra, whatever; she was the editor of Ramparts. She gave me a book list, and I'm a freshman coming in, and I was a really good student, but a really good athlete in basketball and baseball, all-city. I broke all kinds of records in New York City for hitting. And I'm sorry.
Vincent Boudreau
No, no, you're good.
Ron Rizzi
Hitting, and it was all city, and played in the JA game, which was in Yankee Stadium back then against the USA team. So, I was a pretty successful player, but I loved school. I was really good in school, even though I didn't hang out with the geeky guys, but I was with the athletes and stuff like that. But I loved school, and I never missed classes and all that. So, she was... Kind of had a crush on her too. She was really attractive in the 20s, and I'm here 17. I was hunky. Now I'm in my '80s. But anyway, so I had 11 books to read, and I read all of them. And I remember saying about James Baldwin, reading James and getting conscious of all of that happening, going to a Malcolm X lecture that I really enjoyed, going to the Apollo Theater and stuff like that.
Being in Harlem, I was in Harlem and 101st Street when I was first lived and everything. But it was an incredible time in this world, and so many things, conventions changed from the way we... And they're still with us today.
Vincent Boudreau
Yeah. You would not get the... We are one of the most diverse campuses in the country, but we're also, depending on what list you look at, we're one of the top five 10 schools in the nation in promoting social mobility in our graduates. You don't get that without the social change of the 1960s. You just don't, because the world of economic advance, as you said, there's other ways of getting there, but our main way is still education. And if that's shut off to parts of our community, then that's how democracy withers.
Ron Rizzi
I love and embrace the diversity of the school. And I mentioned, you kind of didn't hear my speech because you had to leave for another area, but I mentioned that I get really upset want to see St. John's play now. And on the baseline, they have St. John's, New York City's team. And it pissed me off big time because CCNY is New York City's team. We're the diverse school. People don't under... The proletariat Harvard. This is a great, great school. I can talk about the people that have come here and everything, and people don't have a clue about it really.
Vincent Boudreau
Ron, I wanted to get back to the work that you've done now in professional baseball. As you said, you've been in professional baseball now for 56 years?
Ron Rizzi
58.
Vincent Boudreau
58. Mostly player development and scouting, right?
Ron Rizzi
The whole thing. It's compartmentalized now. It used to be international, amateur, pro, all under one umbrella. Now they have separate components, and it's a lot more sophisticated with analytics and all of that stuff. But the bottom line, can he play or can he play? And if he can play, what is he?
Vincent Boudreau
Can we talk about the analytics?
Ron Rizzi
Sure.
Vincent Boudreau
I mean, because you watch, at least in the media or in the fictionalized media, you hear about the conversation between the analytics guys and someone who might look more like you, who's been in the game for decades and goes with their gut. They know what they see when they see it. How does that get sorted out in modern scouting- the experience of somebody who's done this work forever and the analytics people?
Ron Rizzi
I think they've screwed the game up a lot.
Vincent Boudreau
Okay.
Ron Rizzi
Although I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's a lot of things that's really valuable, particularly when you're playing a team: the preparation, the advanced scouting and like that, there's so much good information. And I think the kids are too kind. They've changed the game, and they've taken a lot of the fun away from it. And the thing, there's no algorithm that can tell you that this kid play. There's too many variables that are not computable.
And then the most important thing: we talk about five tools in baseball, hitting power, running, defense, throwing- but they forget there's a six tool that's really important is makeup. And makeup encompasses a lot of things about that player: how he deals with adversity, no fear, his work ethic, his character, how he's a teammate- all those kind of things that are really important to be. And there's no algorithm that really identifies any of that stuff, but it's like pornography. For me, doing it, I could tell them one or two, three ground balls of a guy can field, watch one or two ABs, watch half an inning, I could tell about a pitcher. You make mistakes and everything like that. But like I said, going back to Supreme Court about pornography, I know it when I see it.
Vincent Boudreau
Okay. Well, let me ask you then. I didn't know we were going to bring pornography into this conversation today, but bring it on. Do you have a favorite story of somebody that you saw something in that nobody else did, and you were right? A favorite discovery that you made?
Ron Rizzi
Well, I've made mistakes on players. I can tell you, Pedroia, the second baseman for the Red Sox, he's a little pint of piss. He's a really small guy, and I'm watching him in the minor leagues, and he's poor Tucker AAA for the Red Sox, and he's swinging out his ass, a long swing. And I said, "Wait till they get to the big leagues and they pound him in. He's never going to get there." And he become an MVP and an all-star and a great player.
Vincent Boudreau
And shortened his swing, or no?
Ron Rizzi
No, he never did.
Vincent Boudreau
He never did.
Ron Rizzi
There's always out there-
Vincent Boudreau
Outliers. Yeah.
Ron Rizzi
... outliers and everything like that. But the thing is, there's a thing. I'll tell you a story that you'd appreciate about this, but when a scout or when you make a mistake, it's usually with your heart, not your head. But I'm in Venezuela, and I'm working out a kid by the name of Mo Peña that played a little bit for the Yankees and a number of teams, a big strong guy. He's 17 years old. He's hitting balls over the light tower. And he's running 6'7" in the 60, plus arm, plus defender, great Adonis kind of body. And so, you would've given him a blank check. Whatever he wanted, that's it. Give it to him. The people didn't realize he had a serious medical problem, and that no one really knew that he had this medical problem. You know what it was?
Vincent Boudreau
No.
Ron Rizzi
He was allergic to spin.
Vincent Boudreau
He was allergic to spin. Okay. He could hit a fastball.
Ron Rizzi
Well, the breaking ball was kind of... So that kind of thing. And you learn in the beginning, especially in Latin America international scouting, they wanted to show these guys up in a certain way, and these guys were workout warriors. They were perfect, but you put them in a game; like, you don't want to sign a kid in a bullpen. He can look great, but put him on the mound to get hitters out. The same thing with a player. It has to translate to the game. Might be with basketball; that guy can shoot and do certain things. You put him on the court, and he may not be the same animal; that kind of thing. But let me just say another thing: trying to get along your theme on which is talking about watching baseball, like in Latin America, so much more fun than the US. There's a game, and they play in Caracas each year. Caracas, they play a number of times. They're in the same league.
Caracas Magallanes, which is in Valencia, the people line up in the morning. I mean, they fill the state, and people are. And you can't even- if we're sitting like this, you can't hear each other, and the dancing and the music, and they have fun, but they know the game more than a Yankees-Red Sox playoff game. And so, the passion for baseball that I've seen in the world, like in Japan and places like that, now in Korea, it's becoming... The WBC, they got to straighten it out, put it in the middle of the seat like that, but it's becoming more international all the time, and people love the game. And for people in Latin America and stuff like that, they sort of prostitute them in a way. Agents in this country, an agent can get like 3% of a contract. There, they take 40, 50, or more percent-
Vincent Boudreau
Oh, my gosh.
Ron Rizzi
... of a contract. It's like that, but it's the way out. And a lot of those kids, we do a lot of educational things with kids. When we get them, we teach them English, but we take them to school; we get GREs for them. So, we do a lot of those kind of things. And just getting exposed to this culture here, when they go back, it really helps facilitate their success in other ventures if they don't get to the big leagues.
Vincent Boudreau
So, I was going to ask about that. You go down to Latin America, you scout a young kid, and you bring him-
Ron Rizzi
By the way, you make decisions with kids when they're 13 or 14.
Vincent Boudreau
Well, that's what I'm thinking. So, all of a sudden, in a way, you, the organization, acquire some real responsibility for this person's development. And I wonder what are the most important kind of lessons that you bring to that?
Ron Rizzi
Well, I think when we get them in our... They're not a piece of meat, and we consider every kid as a human being, and we care about them personally. And we try to help the development not only on the field as players, and it's the first time they probably have good nutrition a lot of times in programs, but we care. You're only talking about 4% of kids that sign to get to the big leagues. So, most of the kids aren't going to get there, but we try to give them a lot of other kinds of tools and values that they can use in their life after baseball.
Vincent Boudreau
So, I mean, just kind of stick with that for a little bit. Baseball, it's becoming much more international, or it has been for a long time.
Ron Rizzi
38% of the big-league teams from outside of the United States.
Vincent Boudreau
Oh, that's wonderful. That's fantastic. Well, we see-
Ron Rizzi
But the negative. We used to be, when I got in it, 24% African American; we're down to 11%. Now, there's a lot of inner-city programs that we're putting with RBI and things like that, trying to make it more accessible for kids and have different programs. Former players are really spearheading that. Former Black players are really spearheading that. We're doing a better job. It's starting to trend up a bit because we lost so many good athletes.
Vincent Boudreau
What do you think the fall-off was? Is it because you can always do a pickup game?
Ron Rizzi
Economics.
Vincent Boudreau
Economics?
Ron Rizzi
Yeah. It's a lot where you don't see them play hockey, ice hockey. It costs a lot of money now, the way it's structured. Kids are on travel teams going all kinds of...
I'll tell you a quick story on McCutchen. You may not know who; he was a really good player with the Pirates and MVP. He's from Tampa. He played on a team when he was really young, and he was the best player in the whole league by far. And a friend of his, a white kid, was a good friend and a pretty good player. Now they're going to graduate to play in a travel league, and the cost was pretty significant for him, and he didn't have it. The father liked the kid and was affluent enough. He paid for him, and McCutchen went through that whole process and became a great big-league player. But if that father didn't step up, and how many other kids- that's sort of a microcosm of what a lot of kids go through in sports when you can't afford the equipment or you don't have access to fields or travel and all things like that.
Vincent Boudreau
I bet we're going to hear a little bit about that when we talk about Rucker Park and the days back there. But what I was going to ask about with the international aspect of it: you're bringing young people in from around the world, many, many from Latin America, at this really kind of precarious... On the one hand, you see the World Cup brings people from all over the world, and the Koreans go to Mexico, and they fall in love with each other. And the Scots go to Rhode Island, and they drink all the beer, and everybody loves them. And so, there's this moment where, as a people, as a society, we're enthralled by the magic that happens when you bring people from different backgrounds together, and then they enjoy each other. And then the World Cup is over, and we're back to a time when, as a society, it sounds like we don't like people from outside of the United States. And how do you prepare young players in an organization? And I know that there's something going on in the Padres organization now that really kind of speaks to this as well, but...
Ron Rizzi
Well, the thing is, it's a little bit different because they're kind of isolated. In other words, they're not. Well, they assimilate to some degree in the American culture and society, but when you're on a team, you're a family. And so, we have people from all over the country and all over the world, and they kind of bond and become a family.
Our team here with San Diego, they're really close with each other because you spend eight months a year together, more than you spend with your family and stuff like that. And like I said, there are a lot of programs available now for them that we try to deal with education, with nutrition, a lot of things. A lot of times we help their families in a lot of ways, not only bringing them here, but helping them in other ways. If they're distressed with food and different things, we help support them to some degree. I wouldn't say we do a lot. A lot of the kids that come here to play, a lot of them stay. A good percentage of wind up being able now it's becoming a little bit more difficult to do that.
And even for some of the countries, getting work visas to come here is difficult. We know the whole Cuban thing at one time, how they tried to get here, a lot of the players. Now it's more accessible for them, but coming here really changed their life and, a lot of times, their family. I know that all the players here send a lot- boxes and stuff back to their families: medical equipment, things for kids, and things that you don't have available for them in their countries.
Vincent Boudreau
Even in some cases, building player development facilities in the DR, you go down there and-
Ron Rizzi
Oh, yeah. It's incredible. The facilities are as nice as they are in your spring training venues. It's just incredible. In Dominican, where I spend a lot of time now too, they have over 400... I'm trying to think of what they call facilities where they have bus cones and everything, developing players. And you can be coming down a dirt thing with mud and pigs going by and chickens. Then all of a sudden you come in like it's a Mecca, and there's this mirage in the middle of the desert, and there's this incredible facility with everything like you would have in the US. So, the academy was the word I was trying to... They have a lot of academies, and kids go there when they're 11 years old, and they live there, and they trained and everything. And again, not all of those kids get signed and make money, but that's the hope. And so, a lot of those parents in those countries... Venezuela's a little different because it was more affluent and it was more family, and the kids that were middle class and up played baseball. Dominican, it's the poor kids.
Vincent Boudreau
When we think about professional sports and baseball, obviously you think of athletes, but as an institution that has an economics department and a math department and an engineering school, what are the other kind of skill sets that a team like the Padres or the Mets would be looking for when they're-
Ron Rizzi
Well, you can't believe how many people work in the organization beyond just... Even with the team, we have almost more coaches and people working staff than players. I mean, from every aspect of it, because a lot of analytics stuff is going on, and we have mental coaches and psychological and then nutritionists. We have two chefs that come along with the team.
Vincent Boudreau
Wow.
Ron Rizzi
And every meal is designed. We teach kids when they come in. I was just in Arizona the other day with our new drafty kids, and they're starting to teach them how to eat properly. Every meal is designed with everything because they touch on everything, strengthening. So, it's a kind of crazy world, but beyond that, I mean, we sell out every single game in Petco, but there's the marketing people and the community; there's so much. The umbrella that the tentacles, it's like in amoeba. It's everywhere. And so, there's so much. There's a lot of opportunity for people in sports, even beyond, say, coaching or playing.
Vincent Boudreau
Well, that's what-.
Ron Rizzi
It's an awful lot.
Vincent Boudreau
Yeah. So, you hear that, everybody? You don't have to be able to hit it over the fence to work in baseball.
Ron Rizzi
Just go to NYT or Harvard or CCNY.
Vincent Boudreau
Okay, that's right.
Our next guest takes us to the world of basketball and at the same time into the history and culture of Harlem. Bobby "Zorro" Hunter was a member of the original Harlem Globetrotters and is one of the 50 greatest players in the history of the Rucker Pro League. Mr. Hunter's career in basketball has carried him well beyond the boundaries of the court. After several years of playing, he turned to coaching and held college-level positions at Central Connecticut State University, Long Island University, Ron identifies one of the big ones back in the day in basketball, Boston College and Stanford University, where I guess they have some kind of a campus on the West Coast. He's also taken his work abroad, giving basketball clinics to young people all over the world and using the game as a means of education, mentorship, and personal development.
Back at home, Mr. Hunter has always stayed closely involved with young people and has a strong commitment to community service. He was one of the founders of Each One Teach One, which is an organization based on the idea that education, mentorship, and basketball can work together to create opportunity. Now, his story is also linked to one of the most important figures in the history of Harlem basketball, probably history of basketball writ large, and that's Holcombe Rucker. Mr. Hunter refers to Rucker as his teacher and mentor, and in 2024, he gave a statement before Congress regarding Mr. Rucker's legacy and the historical importance of the park, which now carries his name and has a federal designation as a commemorative space. Mr. Hunter's career, whether on the courts of Harlem with the Harlem Globetrotters, in coaching and education, and in community service, exemplifies many of our themes today: how talent is recognized, how opportunities are especially recognized, and what it means to reach back and help prepare the next generation.
So, Mr. Bobby "Zorro" Hunter, it is my pleasure to welcome you to From City to the World. Thank you for being here with us.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
City College, City College.
Vincent Boudreau
City College, City College.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
I lived on 136th Street, and I looked out my window, and I could see City College.
Vincent Boudreau
Oh, you did?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah.
Vincent Boudreau
Fantastic. So, before we begin to explore your story, I want to make sure everybody understands this Rucker name and place and legacy that's so important to Harlem and to basketball. Holcombe Rucker was an educator, a mentor. He's a community leader. He understood that basketball could be used to reach young people, and he encouraged young people to see basketball as an opportunity to move forward. He was a particular mentor to you. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about his impact on your life, both on and off the court.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Holcombe Rucker graduated from City College.
Vincent Boudreau
Get out of here. I did not know that. I thought... It is my job to know these things, and I did not.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah. We were playing at Colonial, and he was going to college at the same time and mentoring us at the same time, running a tournament at the same time and going to City College and sweating. Holcombe Rucker, it's very interesting. I tell people all over the world, especially kids, I said, "He had a voice and a manner of speaking that went right in your ear, and you could hear." And when I was a young kid growing up in Harlem with all that Harlem had, it was hard to listen. Especially when you lived in a house with six aunts and four uncles and a grandmother and a mother and a couple of cousins. I didn't want to hear anything.
Vincent Boudreau
A lot of crosstalk probably in that house.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
But he was able to come right into your mind and speak in a voice and a tone that you would listen to and remember. So, I wanted to imitate him in all fashions, even to the way he approached you. And that's what I would do in high schools and colleges and basketball clinics all over the world. And I mean, I would really work at it. I would carry granite. I would be acting all the way just like him. And it was very important at that particular time. A friend of mine over there, I call him Home Run Percy, but we played stickball, baseball, basketball in the park and jumping rope with the girls and going to dances. But we weren't studying. At least I'm sure that I was not.
And Holcombe Rucker told me that if I didn't study that I would end up pushing a card on 34th Street. I said, "Oh," just like that. "Oh." You know what I mean? So, he says, "What you need to do is go to the library and just start reading and just go to the library." I said, "Just go to the library." So I went to the library, and I started reading a little bit. And then I saw something about history. I said, "Oh, this is very interesting. Germanic tribes coming out of Russia into..." And I just kept reading. And the next thing you know, I learned to study and look at education in a different manner.
So, when I go to a group of kids, and I see one of them jumping up, I said, "Oh, you were me, so just sit down for a second and just let me tell you how this goes, and I can get you on the right track." I said, "Because I was in the back of the classroom drawing, painting, telling jokes, looking at Big Leg Pat, and not studying. So, I was nowhere. So, I know where you are right now."
Vincent Boudreau
So, hang on. You were looking at Big Leg Pat?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah, from 27th Street.
Vincent Boudreau
Okay.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
I think she caused me to fail two tests. But the point of it is that once I started into the library, then I became a different person. So, to get their attention, I had 2,000 kids there in Washington doing a camp last year and I put a basketball in the middle of the floor and then I go talk to two kids and then I would tell them, I said, "I wasn't a great player, but I was a baseball player, but what happened was I could go get the ball. So older guys wanted me to play with them. Everybody wanted me to play with them. And then after I learned how to get the ball, I learned how to pass the ball. And then I found out getting the ball was in these sports: ping pong, baseball, basketball. I even raised my hand in class just from going right and get the ball."
I said, "There's a bench of life and a bus of life. Some people get right off that bench and right under the bus. That's what you have to learn, to release that reflex within your body." I said, "I can do that for you." So, then I tell them, "Go get that ball." And there's two kids standing there, and one goes against the faster than the other. So, I give them $20. So, then I go to the next two kids, then the next two kids. And then I bring two more kids, and I start talking. I said, "All your life, someone is going to try to interfere. They're going to impede you. Go get the ball." And then one of them is paying attention; he goes and get it quicker. And I give them $20. And then I get two girls, and I talk about life, and then they have a different fashion of going to get the ball. And then one of them says, "Thank you." And I says, "Here's $50."
Vincent Boudreau
Nice.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
I said, "Because thank you is a key to your life: good manners." I said, "Good manners." I said, "My mother told me to go into Ms. Reynolds and tell Ms. Reynolds I'm not reading well and will she please help me?" And I said, "I'm not going to that teacher. The guys will laugh at me. I got to punch around, punch people." Well, she knows she had a 97% of being right. So I went to Ms. Reynolds, and I finally walked her. I said, "Ms. Reynolds, I'm not reading well. Will you please help me?" And she said, "Sure, I'll help you, Robert." And I said, "Thank you." And then I walked away. And as I was walking away, she said, "Hey, Bobby." I said, "What?" She said, "You know you're one of my favorites?" I said, "Me?" Because I went back to looking, drawing, painting, making jokes, looking at Big Leg Pat. I said, "Me?"
So, then I found out that please and thank you in good manners is a great direction for your life. And I did it through college. And every camp I go through, I do this in the same manner so they would understand how I found out.
Vincent Boudreau
Yeah. But you also learned that all it takes some time is for one word, one bit of attention from an adult to a child who's feeling uncertain to get them off the bench and, on the bus, right?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah. When you say one, I had about four, but it only takes one mentor to get you there. And when I say four was because one mentor was Cecil Watkins, the other one was Leroy Watkins. Oh yeah, he was from City College. And another one was from Floyd Lane. Oh gosh, he was from City College.
Vincent Boudreau
City College.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Another one was Ed Warner. Oh, he was from City College. And surprising the method in which they did and treated you because they wanted to tell you a message that they learned.
Vincent Boudreau
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. We talked about Holcombe Rucker's influence on your life. Let's talk about what it was like to play in Rucker Park in the day.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Oh, boy. There was a red dress, a yellow, and a nice green color because all the girls would come and watch you play. Now I wasn't just coming to play for them, but did give you a certain motivation. But it was a great thing with the crowds there, large crowds every game at the Rucker. And then there was a roof across with a school top where some 200 kids would be on top of the school top, and they would be on the fence. And then somebody would rent their house out in the projects across because they would be looking down there. And then, going to on 55th Street, people are sitting on the bridge. This was surprising of a whole neighborhood being there with the street closed, with someone selling soup, potato chips, sweet potato pie, and a whole community reacting. Bob McCullough, he was able to stop gangs from fighting in a sector. During the blackout, he was able to stop a riot by just using the Rucker, by using Holcombe Rucker's whole idea of community development.
Vincent Boudreau
I've listened to you in other interviews talk about all the great players on that court who never made it into the NBA. And I know it has something to do with opportunity; it has something to do with being seen, might have something to do with style of play, but talk a little bit about the players and what the game felt like on the court.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Joe "The Destroyer" Hammond had an opportunity to go to the Lakers. Instead, he was shooting crap on 115th Street, and he didn't go. I never could figure it out. There was about eight other kids I know personally that didn't go to college that had college scholarships. And there was other kids that Rucker had mentored that were mentoring other kids to go to college, and college was the key to going. Now, I wanted to go to music and art, but I failed the Regents. I got a 63. I still don't like Mr. Stern for not giving me two more points, and I didn't get to go to Loyola either. So, I ended up going to Tennessee A&I with Wilma Rudolph and Ralph Boston, which was a great experience.
Vincent Boudreau
Pretty good company. Yeah.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah. But the point of it is that counseling and coaching in the inner structure there is great also. And that's some of the things that Holcombe Rucker had.
Vincent Boudreau
The Harlem Globetrotters. How did that happen?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Well, let's see. 1965, we were all at the Nick camp. Freddie Crawford, Tom Hoover, Jerry Nixon, Al Innis, and Bobby Hunter. And what happened was it was a slow process, and they put us in a Mustang with feet hanging all over the cars, those five giants, and driving us down to Wilmington, Delaware, where we played. Neil Johnson didn't like me very much because I was kind of tricky because I came from Harlem. So, we couldn't work things exactly out. Abe Saperstein said to me, "How much are you going to pay you if you get..." I said, "8,000." He said, "Well, suppose I gave you 16 because I've been asking you for two years to come with the Globetrotters because you remind me of Goose Tatum imitating Meadowlark Lemon." I said, "I don't know what that means." He said, "16,000." I said, "I know what that means." So, I said, "Here I come." I waved my hand at Neil Johnson. I said, "See you later."
And I went with the Globetrotters and had a marvelous experience playing with Wilt Chamberlain, Connie Hawkins, Marques Haynes, Bobby Joe Mason, Meadowlark Lemon.
Vincent Boudreau
Curly Neal.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Curly Neal, and we played a lot of straight games.
Vincent Boudreau
You did? I didn't know that.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Oh, yeah. We played a lot of straight games.
Vincent Boudreau
So, what did you like? I did not know that. The only time that we got to see the Harlem Globetrotters is when you're beating up on the Generals.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah, we were playing comedy games.
Vincent Boudreau
Right.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Yeah.
Vincent Boudreau
Tell me about the straight games.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Oh, the straight games we played throughout the countries of an awful lot in Canada and an awful lot in Italy and in Spain. In the straight games, it took them about a whole half to figure out Curly Neil might be the greatest player on the floor. The other was in the straight... I played the same both games, whether it was comedy or straight, because I was from Harlem. So, I played the same way. So, it was just a walk in the park for me. So that was a magnificent part of it. And then Meadowlark wasn't a great player, but he was a great defensive player. And then I would end up bringing the ball down, so then And one of the things they tell you as soon as you get to the Globetrotters, get the ball out of your hands. So, the young lady Clark that is playing for Indiana, she's a Globetrotter because she gets the ball out of her hands. And the young lady, Miles, from Minnesota, she's a Globetrotter because she gets that ball out of her hands.
Vincent Boudreau
For a lot of people outside of Harlem, you hear the word Harlem, they think two things. They think, "Oh, it's a bad place, at least traditionally." Then they think the Globetrotters. Here you are traveling the world, bringing that world, the idea of Harlem, to people that maybe have no idea what it is, and you are carrying that legacy to people. What did that feel like for a young man from Harlem to introduce the world to Harlem?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Well, first, I was naive, so that helped too, because we grew up with Italian suits and ties and your cuffs one inch from and shined Stetson shoes, and that's how we grew up watching number writers. We didn't know anything about the prejudice which was filling the world up at that time. We're talking 1958, 1957. I didn't know anything about real prejudice until I got down to Tennessee and somebody called me the wrong name, and I grabbed some bricks, and all of a sudden, this guy pulled up. He says, "What are you doing?" He says, "You don't know what you're doing or where you are." I said, "Who are you?" He says, "I work with IBM and FBI and Ku Klux Klan." I said, "All three of them?" He says, "Yes, now get in the car." Then I went to Chicago, and all of a sudden, some shotguns had me up against the wall with some leather coats. I said, "What is this?" And I started laughing. They said, "Well, something wrong with him."
But the point of it is that the manners in which we grew up with in Harlem, we took around the world- Pablo Robinson, myself, Ron Jackson- and the manner of acting because the world was a very even place for us if we weren't a little further ahead and we learned how to speak to people, maybe play Cooncan too much. Cooncan is a game in which the Negro league played, and number writers played. I had the great experience of riding behind Satchel Page for two years in a Globetrotter bus, beating him at Cooncan. I said, "Listen, you're a great pitcher, but I'm a Cooncan artist from Harlem."
> Vincent Boudreau
It's got to stop. What was Satchel Page doing on a Globetrotters bus?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Well, Satchel Page, when he got kicked out of the league, Abe Saperstein picked him up, and he would travel along with us and do something at halftime and then also be guiding us, talking to us. One day when he was getting off the bus, a guy came and bowed down. He says, "Listen, New York fellow, you really don't know who I am." I said, "Obviously I don't." Then he began to tell me about life and the Negro League and the American League and what it takes to be in this life. He said, "You're going to face it one day." I said, "What do you mean?" He says, "You're going to face it. One day, you're going to have to stand up."
As I took all the players to South America and everyone hated me for it, and I would not do what they told me to. Sure enough, I found out sooner or later exactly what he meant when I decided that we weren't getting a pension plan, and I spoke to Oscar Robinson, and he says, "Well, then just go on strike and then you be the president." I said, "Oh, that seemed like a great idea." Then.
Vincent Boudreau
Before you did it.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Before I did it. But the people that we ran into all over the world, like William Marshall, the actor, told me and Wilt Chamberlain to go over there and speak to that gang there in California over there. I said, "I'm not speaking to them guys. They got guns and whatnot." "Bobby, I want you and Wilt to go over there and speak to them." So, Wilt went over there because he was from Philadelphia, and they had gangs. We didn't have gangs in New York. You belonged to Boy Scouts. One of the great things growing up in New York, you had a certain friendship with people. The gentleman I came here with, we call him Home Run Percy. I've known him since I was three years old. I didn't like him because every time I pitched the ball to him, he hit it over the fence.
Vincent Boudreau
Oh, that's insulting, isn't it?
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Right. But you grow up with a certain relationship in which you have. The relationship I had with Percy Sutton, the relationship I had with Lloyd Williams. One day Lloyd and I was thinking, I said, "Well, we'll have Harlem Day." He said, "Harlem Week." And then we started doing games here at City College. And then also what we did here was we brought schools from all over the nation here, and they were happy to see City College and the whole effect here.
Vincent Boudreau
Yeah. And of course, the job fair that we just did last week for Harlem Week.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
Oh yes, I heard about that. But y'all failed me in math during summer school, so let's not overplay this.
Vincent Boudreau
Oh, listen, listen. Mr. Rucker would say, "We didn't fail you. You failed yourself." I believe he would say something like that. Let's talk just a little bit about... We're running out of time a little bit. I want to make sure you get a chance to talk about Each One, Teach One and some of the community work that you're doing.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
The Each One Teach One student health plan is international. I took it from Each One Teach One nationally and took it internationally where coming October, we're going to have a gentleman, a king from Ghana, sponsor the international program. And the international program will be in reading and writing also what you eat- what an athlete eats to make you healthier. We have a Globetrotter; his name is Dr. John Howard. He can teach anyone to read or write in a four-month period. So, we have a reading program, and we have an educational program, and then we have an education program for proper diet and eating. And we're very happy about that to spread this around the world to young kids.
Vincent Boudreau
That's wonderful.
Bobby “Zorro” Hunter
I was at the UN telling them, as I took some of the items that we have, we have a Cardio Miracle, and we have a Prima, which is a bar that has no sugar in it. I made it accidentally crumbled and I put it on a salad. I said, "Wait a minute, I think I found something new." But the most important is we're attacking not just making a young man a great or woman athlete. We're attacking how to make them healthier mentally and physically.
Vincent Boudreau
Well, folks, we are sadly out of time for today's show, and I want to thank both of our guests, Bobby "Zorro" Hunter, who you've just heard about his years on the Rucker Field and with the Globetrotters. But I think, more importantly for the conversation we're having, the way that he's turned those experiences into a vocation for mentorship and leadership development. And Ron Rizzi, City College graduate, 50 years in professional baseball, developing players, helping to manage baseball operations, and also with a real perspective on what it means to take a young athlete and develop what they're going to do on the field and what they're going to do off the field as well. So, thank both of you for being with me today. This is a great way to kick off our academic year.
Before we leave today, I did want to leave you with one message, those of you at home. I want to remind you that City College is a resource for the greater Harlem community. Throughout the year, we host programs, lectures, special events that are open to the public and absolutely free. So, I encourage you to visit the City College events calendar and see what's coming up, and know that if you are within the range of my voice, or you know somebody outside the range of my voice that you want to spread the word to, you are welcome on this campus. Entrepreneurs and small business owners in our community, we are now home to the Upper Manhattan Small Business Development Center, and that center provides no-cost one-on-one business advisement, training, and research for aspiring entrepreneurs and existing business owners throughout Upper Manhattan. Again, another resource that we are really enthusiastic about starting and offering to the community. We hope you come and take advantage of it.
You can learn more about this program and other programs that we offer by visiting the City College website at www.ccny.cuny.edu. Thank you for listening to this special summer edition of From City to the World, and I hope we'll have you back in the studio listening in September for the formal kickoff of our academic year. Thanks for listening, everybody.